THE KNUCK

THE KNUCKLEHEAD SALOON => THE SHOTGUN BAR => Topic started by: McClean on September 11, 2009, 03:34:03 AM

Title: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: McClean on September 11, 2009, 03:34:03 AM
:)

We had some of these videos in various threads on the old Knuck. I thought I'd try to get them all in one thread here.

Being this is Knuck, I don't expect this to be an issue here, but I do want to say that any dickhead posts in this thread WILL be deleted and I'm sure I'm not the only mod here who feels that way.

Also, others are welcome to post similar videos in this thread.






I Was Only 19 by Redgum.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Urtiyp-G6jY



Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: McClean on September 11, 2009, 03:42:33 AM
Vietnam That's How It Is Lyrics by Dave Cook.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CqN8jUK03A
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: McClean on September 11, 2009, 03:46:03 AM
If You're Reading This by Tim McGraw.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwoXmXA8BvY
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: McClean on September 11, 2009, 03:55:48 AM
Toby Keith - American Soldier (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWrMeBR8W-c&feature=avmsc2)
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: McClean on September 11, 2009, 04:02:56 AM
Montgomery Gentry - Didn't I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqRX1jtsnpg&feature=avmsc2#)
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: McClean on September 11, 2009, 04:10:18 AM
Still In Saigon by The Charlie Daniels Band.



Vietnam War Vet Tribute (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eisoitxhvI#)
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: Hardman on September 11, 2009, 06:54:41 PM
:)

You know my thoughts on this - will copy them over if anyone is interested :)

Cheers
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: Hardman on September 12, 2009, 02:01:46 PM
Eh, I'll paste this in anyway - Jamie and I had this discussion long ago and this is what I said:

Wars.

I've been to far too many in my life, I think the count was seven if you include insanities like Ireland.

At a remove of thirty years I can see two where I made a difference:

Biafra where I was working for Red Cross in the post-war clean-up, which still involved a deal of gunfire, and Israel during the War of Attrition, probably was part of delaying the '73 October war, by which time I was no longer there and wished I had been... Lost a lot of friends in that war and its aftermath.

The Cold War, which often became more than warm, I was a part of, I don't know if I was even noticed, and don't really care.

I was a brief observer in Vietnam, but still managed to get in the thick of it a couple of times, trouble has a way of finding me, useless war from beginning to end....

British Honduras, Ireland, and one I can't talk about, yeah, seven, plus a few other skirmishes.

The thing that gets me about these clips Jamie has posted is this:

Unwilling warriors......

I chose to be a warrior, in my youth I was I suppose very well equipped in mind and body, still not too bad in either but damned cynical in the first. But, it was my choice, I didn't like some things going on in the world and I decided to get engaged with seeing if I could make a difference, as I said, some places I did some I did not.

My choice, but not the choice of conscripts, or probably National Guard in Iraq within 72 hours of arriving.

Conscription is ridiculous really, you can't make warriors out of office workers and farmers too often, warriors have to CHOOSE to be warriors, and accept that it is not exactly a glamorous profession, Hollywood to the contrary.

I am VERY tired of politicians failing in their jobs and using warriors as "politics by another means" as that fool McNamara was prone to say, no wonder Ford make such shitty cars overall if he was part of the process.....

The day the politicians lead the charge I'll take note, as once used to happen in deep history, nowadays it's chess, with pieces that bleed and die.....

One war in the late 20th century crystalised my thinking - the Falklands.

Idiotic war in many ways, but, the fading empire projected force on a scale unheard of since WWII, and won, using solely trained professionals.

I lost two friends in that war, but, they chose to be there, which is the point, warriors will go where wars are, and there's plenty of choice, but warriors also exist to defend in the main, which was always my goal, yet, best form of defence is often attack, to quote a homily

If more people saw the true horror of modern war I rather believe war would come to an abrupt halt, leaving the few psychopaths, we can deal with those....

It's a strange balance. Sometimes Hollywood glorifies war, sometimes it does not, the nightly news rarely has the real footage, or deems it too graphic for the kiddies or something...

I do not agree with the latter one iota, not after seeing how African kids deal with war on a daily basis, the more we spread the horror the more there will be abhorence.

I'm just musing, but thanks for putting those clips here Jamie, where intelligent people CAN muse

Cheers

For some reason that input killed the thread, perhaps on Knuck it might not :)
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: once repent on September 12, 2009, 03:07:33 PM
Travelling soldier

DIXIE CHICKS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLBgmbXBOb8
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: once repent on September 12, 2009, 03:10:59 PM
www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BZ6aqgvdFI
poster girl
Bec Cole
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: once repent on September 12, 2009, 03:16:00 PM
Welcome home
from Ford

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-blLivstVU

Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: Hardman on September 19, 2009, 12:09:00 AM
 :)

Geez....

Took my eldest to see Dixie Chicks a while back... They did "Traveling Soldier," Kid looks at me and said "Sounds like you dad...."

Sometimes you can tell your kids a little too much....

Still love that song though, all of these really, interesting thread, I'd really like to know what in hell it is that leads to the need for these emotions though - I never WANTED to go to war, just didn't see there was much choice....

Cheers

Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: McClean on September 19, 2009, 09:35:18 AM
I thought about posting "Traveling Soldier" to start with, but I decided not to.

In my little corner of the world, pretty much any mention of the Dixie Chicks is sure to result in a political shit storm, which I wanted to avoid in this thread.

Great song though...

I'll probably have a bit more to say when I have more time and I'm also toying with the idea of splitting off the discussion part into another thread.

It's pretty easy to push the buttons, just not sure whether I should or not.  ::w
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: Hardman on September 19, 2009, 10:44:33 AM
 :)

Nice idea Jamie - ANY discussion on the futility of war is worthwhile - always...

Bear in mind, in the main this is an Oz site, Dixie Chicks didn't get much in the way of crap down here - they were a bit bitter about the whole controversy though, mentioned it in the prelude to singing "Travelling Soldier."

From my perspective even though I am not the fan of their music that my daughter is their backbone in that little shit storm was half the reason I shelled out to go see them.

Of course it didn't hurt that they are pretty women and able to carry a tune without instruments if need be, which they did a couple of times that night :)

Cheers

Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: McClean on September 21, 2009, 08:59:20 AM
Well, I think I’m definitely going to have to find that split button, but that said…

It probably won’t surprise you when I say that I don’t much agree with their politics, especially Natalie Maines, who’s the really mouthy one of the group. 

However, I couldn’t help wondering what ever happened to the idea of freedom of speech, especially freedom of political speech or the idea that while I may not agree with what you say, I would defend to the death your right to say it.

What’s happening in the US today and in recent years boils down to, if you are in the public eye and you are right of center, then you can say pretty much anything you want, regardless of how moronic it is. But if you happen to be left of center and dare to express an opinion, then you get the “shut up and sing or else” crap.

As for the Dixie Chicks, even though I may not agree with some of their previous comments, I do love the defiance of this song.


www.youtube.com/watch?v=pojL_35QlSI&feature=avmsc2
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: Hardman on September 21, 2009, 11:00:09 PM
:)

Politics is about disagreement - Personally I prefer the aboriginal approach of concordance - keep arguing until you agree :)

Cheers
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: fuknK1W1 on October 11, 2009, 12:33:48 PM
Sometimes you can tell your kids a little too much....

Sometimes the kids don't get told enough and they take their stories to the grave told only to those who were there. The nature of the beast I guess.
This may be going off on a tangent as most of the posts relate to songs about war, any way I'd like to share some photos with you.

This is a photo of my old man (step father) & his crew from NZ 18th Armoured Regiment in Italy in 1943 at a place called Sangro.

(http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii16/Trickypiccies/sangro.jpg)

Here are some excerpts from the family history; Douglas (The Boss) was my  step grandfather;
“Douglas arrived in the outpost from where he had been lying on his overcoat in the sun, and reported that the guns of a destroyer seemed to be pointed at their direction instead of at the Turks. The first shell from the destroyer was a direct hit on his overcoat, and several more were fired before the mistake was realized.”

This one relates to the assault on Chunuk Bair, during which New Zealand troops were again accidentally fired on by the British Navy:

“The fighting was very heavy and casualties were heavy too. After four months the Canterbury Mounted Rifles, 32 officers and 645 men who had served on Gallipoli only one officer and 32 men were left, having not been killed, wounded, gone missing or evacuated sick. In August Douglas got yellow fever and jaundice and dysentery and was evacuated about the same time as Uncle Bill was wounded.”

After the armistice The Boss returned to Gallipoli on garrison duty. He found it very interesting looking from the Turkish point of view at the places the New Zealanders had tried to capture.

“After a month (at Gallipoli) they went back to Egypt and were due to come back to New Zealand when the Egyptian riots broke out. They were sent to pacify the natives, which was a fairly tough job, all those rioting Egyptians, a lot of whom they flogged. Then just as they were due to leave for New Zealand they had to destroy all their horses, which was the saddest thing they had to do.  (Douglas) finally got back to New Zealand about a year after the war ended”

Another brother Alistair went away but died at Paschendale these are his son’s words, he had two sons one of whom he never saw. They are both still alive:

“(Alistair) was killed by a shell which landed right in front of him. Dad was 26 when he died. Austen was two and I was about three months old. Mother just carried on. We were told that our father had been killed. We just sort of accepted that and life went on.”


My Great Uncle Bill wrote these words about his experience in Gallipoli:
"I got up and tried to walk, but found I couldn't. I had four bullet holes through the ankle and my boot had been shot right off. So I lay down and told my Seargents, Bert (Fleming) and   
Arthur (Greenwood), to get on with it. Soon afterwards they both got shot as well. We had gone out in our shirt sleeves and that night was bitterly cold. Dr Neil Guthrie, our medical officer, tried to cover me up with branches that had been shot off by shells. Then I called out for stretcher bearers and they picked me up and took me down to the beach next morning. We were dumped on the hot sand in the blazing sun, no shelterat all. At nightfall we were put on a cattle barge and were bumped about and splashed by the sea. Some of the chaps were yelling a bit. Three different ships were too crowded to take us aboard, but at last a petty officer got us on the first boat, very over crowded. Two elderly nurses gabbed me and put my leg into some scolding water and it turned the flesh all grey and bloody cooked it and saved my life,probably. There was only one doctor on that ship and these two nurses."
 
Uncle Bill went on to live to be 100 years old, my cousin still has his wooden leg. He used to say even late in life that he could scratch his wooden leg to get relief from the "phantom itch" in his foot.......................

WE WILL REMEMBER THEM
LEST WE FORGET

Today I found these photos while searching the net.
In this photo Uncle Bill is 4th from the left in the back row, & Alistair was my cousin Bill' paternal grandfather. The bloke at the end of the seated (2nd) row on the right is cousin Bill's maternal grandfather (Major Fred). Major fred survived the war only to be killed in a level crossing accident.
(http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii16/Trickypiccies/CMR_officers1914.jpg)

I also found this photo of some NZ officers taken just before being evacuated from Galipolli.
The bloke seated at the front left is a machine gun officer, when I was a young fella I was sent stay on his farm during the holidays. I had a lot of fun at his place as he had 2 machine guns on the back veranda the green one was an Allied gun & the grey one was German gun. Of course he was an old man by then.
(http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii16/Trickypiccies/CMR_Gallipoli_evac.jpg)

LEST WE FORGET
 
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: Hardman on October 11, 2009, 04:55:26 PM
 :)

I kinda knew immediately that you were going to fit in around here, very interesting stuff you posted there.

War - I dunno what it is, really, I do not, and I've been there more than most, although a mate of mine who is Special Forces and just recently got himself shot, again, in Afghanistan, laughs and calls me an amateur :) He's ok, shooting that guy just gets him annoyed :)

it's something we should by now have outgrown, it is also poignant and tragic and I don't care what people say about the  the techno progress it produces, the price is not worth it.

Nice post mate.

Cheers

Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: McClean on October 23, 2009, 06:14:39 PM
Terrible though it is, I do believe there are times when war is necessary.

As for the men who fight....

There are a few lines in the Toby Keith song I posted above that sum it up beautifully.

And I will always do my duty no matter what the price
I’ve counted up the cost, I know the sacrifice
Oh and I don’t want to die for you, but if dyin’s asked of me
I’ll bear that cross with honor, cause freedom don’t come free.


Doc also summed it \up rather well in a post he made on the last incarnation of Knuck...

I'm quoting purely from memory here, but it was along the lines of...

A soldier doesn't fight because he hates what's in front of him. He fights because he loves what's behind him.
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: Hardman on October 23, 2009, 07:09:12 PM
*Very sad smile*

Total truth, mind you whilst I have had my disagreements with Stormin' Norman I do agree with him on that most famous of quotes :)

It's been that way here in the virtual world - just leave us alone, we are nice folks, we don't fuck with you, but if you fuck with us, prepare for pain - and they damned sure got it...

Cheers

Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: Hardman on November 10, 2009, 04:29:33 PM
 :)

Hmm, not split yet....

I'm not really much of a Youtuber and where I am just now I probably don't have the bandwidth anyway, so if anyone can find "Lucky Man" by Emerson Lake and Palmer please add it in.

That song can make my entire family cry - we have lost members in various places, including on the Hood and at Arnhem. Actually we go back a lot further than that, all the way to Hastings and probably beyond but those examples will do.

Here's a thought I have often had.

If you build weapons then there is a very high probability that they will be used, despite all the protestations that they are for defense.

It amazes me that hardly a single military aircraft that I have ever flown, and that is quite a list, has NOT been in combat - Even EE, or Bae if you prefer, Lightnings, hardly intended for the role, had a few scraps in the Gulf. I think only The Saabs, that I can think off the top of my head, have acted purely in defensive non-combatant roles - you get that when you are neutral.

You have to go right up the chain, to the ICBMs and nuclear subs, before you will find thus far unused major weaponry, and I do wonder how long that will last.

Even the B-2s, huge value deterrent systems, were used against Afghanistan.

The point to all of that?

Stop making weapons.

But to misquote a book called "Down to a Sunless Sea" if the last two men on earth were to run into each other one would probably pick up a stick and say "When you are ready Sir."

It's in our genes, violent damned lot.

Cheers





Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: McClean on November 11, 2009, 01:09:00 AM
No split because the split and merge functions can both be damned clunky. As I was recently reminded of when I put them to use in another thread.

What you’re talking about is the catch-22 of military preparedness and deterrence.

History has shown, time and time again, that those who beat their swords into ploughshares, will plow for those who don’t.

I’m not much in the habit of quoting JFK, but he put it rather well in his inaugural address.

“We dare not tempt them with weakness. For only when our arms are sufficient beyond doubt can we be certain beyond doubt that they will never be employed.”

The catch-22 is that the more weapons you have and the more powerful you are, the easier and more tempting it becomes to use those weapons.

Even with the best of intentions, that can lead to pointless wars and hundreds of thousands of wasted lives.

See the Vietnam War for a case study in a militarily powerful country led by a President with the best of intentions.

Even the term Catch-22 wonderfully sums up the paradox.

As coined by Heller, you’d have to be insane to say go up in a big, slow moving bomber, knowing that there will be people both in the air and on the ground trying to kill you and if you’re insane, they can’t make you go into battle. But, the catch-22 is, if you know it’s insane, then you’re not insane and so, you have to go.
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: McClean on November 11, 2009, 01:13:52 AM
What a lucky man he was..


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89g1P_J40JA
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: Hardman on November 11, 2009, 07:42:21 AM
 :)

Thanks mate ;)

Yeah, it is a catch 22, the day you don't have defense is the day the barbarians come over the walls.

I probably didn't explain myself well though, I meant cease weapons development, hold in place and stop the decadence of weaponry.

Impossible of course, whole economies depend upon weapons manufacture, not least in the US, but the way things are going military weaponry is rapidly becoming utterly decadent.

As an example, whilst it is pretty, and full of neat gadgets, the F-35 programme is an utter waste of time and money and in serious trouble.

It'll sort out, it's Lockheed after all, but is it really needed?

You know that I know the aviation industry pretty well, I'd contend that the -35 programme is an example of purest decadence that exists mainly to keep factories open and workers in jobs.

Cheers





Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: thetap on January 12, 2010, 10:25:17 PM
And the Band Played Waltzing Matilda, performed by Redgum.

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vo7SG4IRl6Q#)
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: McClean on March 06, 2010, 03:39:02 AM
This song VERY much belongs here...

I thought it was posted here and at one time, it was. I'm guessing it was lost somewhere in the various incarnations of Knuck.

Beyond that, this song keeps getting killed by DMCA  complaints from corporate fuckwits who's only interest is in squeezing every single penny they can out of EVERYTHING...

Let's just say my values lie elsewhere and if this link dies a horrible death, just let me know and I will find another one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfElHIt7n0s

Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: McClean on July 23, 2010, 02:59:42 AM
 :)

As I said back in March, this song very much belongs here.

As do the others that have died for one reason or another.

ALL links in this thread are now working and I'll try to make sure it stays that way, because this thread is too  important to die.
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: McClean on November 11, 2010, 08:12:18 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qjzjhl-QztE

We dug in deep and shot on sight and we prayed to Jesus Christ with all of our might.

That's the SHORT history of the Vietnam War.

A war that the French had already lost and even the British had enough sense to take a pass on.
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: McClean on December 03, 2010, 12:20:57 PM
Here's one for all those who have served...

Wont Back Down- Tribute to the Soldiers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3ktOQpVLXQ#)
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: Hardman on December 03, 2010, 01:55:37 PM
:)

Interesting collection of images....

Cheers
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: fuknK1W1 on January 29, 2011, 12:09:25 PM
Here's a man who fought a war (WW2), he joined at the outset as a Private & as was common in those days he finished as a commissioned officer.
This is my father.

(http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii16/Trickypiccies/100_1694.jpg)

(http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii16/Trickypiccies/100_1692.jpg)

(http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii16/Trickypiccies/100_1689.jpg)
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: LordDread on January 29, 2011, 12:24:31 PM
with such  suave looks, im suprised he did end uo a fighter piolt for them poms, they seemed to liks nuthen better then to look all dapper and stand round their planes eating icecream (if you listen to some of the more outrageous stories about them :P )

wow a complement and a stick poke at the poms int he same sentence  rofl


also, a big thankyou to him :)
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: Hardman on January 29, 2011, 12:28:31 PM
:)

As I just told you in a PM, good work, I'll be getting the same thing done with my grandfather's medals out of WW1 - damned if I know where my own are, never really cared much, but my grandfather was one heck of a man.

Those WWII pilots were pretty unreal Dready, several of them used to friends of mine and a couple were my early instructors, great guys.

Cheers

Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: fuknK1W1 on January 29, 2011, 12:49:24 PM
:)

As I just told you in a PM,


You did? ;qo
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: Hardman on January 29, 2011, 01:54:22 PM
 :)

you should have it by now.

Cheers

Edit: Hmm, that's never happened around here before, bloody thing has vanished, ah well, said much the same thing plus thanks for the heads up on the framers and yeah, lunch was good :)
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: fuknK1W1 on January 29, 2011, 02:29:56 PM
Could be in someone elses inbox eh ;zq
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: Hardman on January 29, 2011, 02:39:41 PM
 :)

Could be, but I think I just clicked reply to yours, bit tired this morning, the heat yesterday  was bloody horrible.

Cheers
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: McClean on January 29, 2011, 06:21:04 PM
Could be in someone elses inbox eh ;zq


 rofl rofl rofl

You don't know how accurate that  ;zq ;zq is.  rofl
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: Hardman on January 29, 2011, 06:25:01 PM
 :)

I'd say it was more a miss, by me :)

Cheers
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: fuknK1W1 on January 29, 2011, 06:27:38 PM
:)

I'd say it was more a miss, by me :)

Cheers
Your story stick to it  :P
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: Hardman on January 29, 2011, 07:31:06 PM
 :)

It went to Jamie, his pm was the one below yours, forums tend to be different about where the action buttons are, and I seem to be active on a few too many just now :)

Cheers

Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: McClean on February 02, 2011, 05:53:33 PM
:)

I can see how the buttons could be confusing to those who are advancing in years.  :whistling:

Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: Hardman on February 02, 2011, 06:29:53 PM
 :)

More a case of trying to deal with 15 screens open at the same time.....

Cheers
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: GL0Bey on February 02, 2011, 06:31:12 PM
60 Minutes  -  Forgotten heroes of Kapyong - http://video.au.msn.com/watch/video/forgotten-heroes-of-kapyong/xfnofzd?tab=m163&mediaid=100871&from=39 (http://video.au.msn.com/watch/video/forgotten-heroes-of-kapyong/xfnofzd?tab=m163&mediaid=100871&from=39)

The above is the story of my uncle Hector and 3 other Anzac soldiers holding off against impossible odds.

As a young boy I heard first hand accounts of this tale from my uncle whilst he was drunk. Sober he would never mention it. But whilst drunk he would reenact the events and tell me the story.

It sound funny, but he practically lived in the garage. Pool table, dart board (501), fridge, even a fold out bed. Great memories as a kid spending the entire day in the garage. He'd even let me have a VB to feel like one of the boys.

When he died the entire family got a shock. At his funeral some military cars pulled up and out popped the top brass. Most of the family knew he was a vet, but hardly anyone knew what he had done.

The top brass read a lengthy eulogy and paid great respect to my uncle. A couple of years ago the family was contacted and asked if they would attend the unveiling of a statue at the Canberra War Memorial of my uncle and his mates.

Not many people know of the famous battle at Kapyong. But it is a battle where the Anzac spirit shines through, and mates can do the impossible.
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: Hardman on February 02, 2011, 06:36:43 PM
Yeah, that battle is an object lesson in how heroism overcomes, interesting tale mate, something similar happened when one of my uncles died, apparently, I couldn't be there. He was RN and did mad things all his life, sadly drank himself to death.

Cheers
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: fuknK1W1 on February 03, 2011, 05:44:19 PM
Yeah, that battle is an object lesson in how heroism overcomes, interesting tale mate, something similar happened when one of my uncles died, apparently, I couldn't be there. He was RN and did mad things all his life, sadly drank himself to death.

Cheers
A gentlemanly way of doing it, some simply blew their brains out :(
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: Hardman on February 03, 2011, 06:14:58 PM
 :)

I'm a genetic roll of the dice mate, paternal side not too long lived, seventies usually, Uncle John was my age, maternal side, go on for ever, oldest I think was my Aunt Rose, we never quite figured out her birth date, but somewhere around 110 looked about right, and that in days when medicine was not what it is now, and she smoked, and she drank :)

Mind you, Dorsai all, lost a few in the wars.

Cheers
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: McClean on April 07, 2011, 12:45:13 AM
Back on topic...

Love me when I'm gone....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph3PGSVxr7A&feature=related
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: McClean on April 07, 2011, 12:34:38 PM
Aussies in Afghanistan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQ6OFzDq3Ow&feature=related

I AM AN AMERICAN!

And, I would not want to be anything else, but I'll
 still raise a salute to the Aussies who fought on our side of the wars...  :-*
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: Hardman on July 24, 2011, 03:23:39 PM
It's a waste of time and lives - pull the troops - napalm the opium once a year and let the fuckwits kill themselves.

Cheers
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: Hardman on January 22, 2012, 02:10:47 PM
Hmm,

Long time since this thread had any input - I just had a day of sorting out a mate, wants to go back to it ,we just figured it out, he's 64....

I think that's enough, since he was at Keh San....

I don't think he is very happy with me just now, I pulled strings....so did others, his dog seems rather happy though :)

A mate is on his way, he'll settle, there is a time to leave the world of combat, his has come, I'll be there in  a few weeks, settle the "boy" down. :)

Warriors... we are all nuts you know, or we wouldn't do it, this guy needs a chill pill and a friend is on the way to administer - probably comes in a litre bottle of something, who cares ?  :)

Cheers



Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: Hardman on April 04, 2012, 05:41:05 AM
Hmm,

Been a long time since this thread saw any "action," but been reading this week how it's the 30th anniversary of the Falklands war and how it only lasted 79 days and really the death toll was less than you'd expect but Argentina STILL maintains sovereignty - it's up to the occupants, and they prefer being British thanks very much.

I don't know where 30 years went, feels like yesterday and I was on call-up, being rather Harrier experienced, but it was over before anyone got around to getting me a haircut :)

With what now sits at Stanley, a couple of ships of the realm in region and doubtless a Trafalgar class sub lurking around somewhere Argentina would be damned stupid to try anything, then again, they were last time.

All about money, the oil off the islands is becoming accessible and there's some interesting minerals in the nearby waters. I can't think of a single other reason for anyone to take any interest in the place - been there, for some reason the inhabitants like it, probably because it is not, ironically, a money driven economy, but people choose to live in odd places and I doubt the islanders would ever get much out of any mineral exploitation, or care very much.

Sometimes I could wish for that far simpler existence :)

I went and broke a vow to my wife this past ten days and brushed across the advisory field again, not in the least proud of myself, and quite enough on the plate just now, but, some idiots were making idiotic decisions, over now I think - fucking crazy world.

But, I do have a belief in looking after my friends, which most particularly includes this rather mad little clan :)

Cheers

Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: McClean on April 12, 2012, 08:49:44 PM
Well, I should be in bed, been up all night, feeling like shit and I've an appointment in a few hours...

However, I happened across this song while looking for something else.

I'd never heard it before but I think it belongs here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9r_b01VFIJw
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: fuknKIWI on April 14, 2012, 12:56:43 PM
Hmm,

Been a long time since this thread saw any "action," but been reading this week how it's the 30th anniversary of the Falklands war

OK this is not quite the right fit for this thread but it's not totally out of place...
This is by Split Enz, a Kiwi band, and it was banned in Britain and on the BBC during the Falklands war.
Indeed Chris it's amazing how the last thirty years have flown by pappychris.gif

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeKdUeb1InI
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: Hardman on April 14, 2012, 02:04:39 PM
 :)

I remember that - Jamie would not know the band probably and you are quite correct NZ band, like so many, stolen by Oz when they did well :)

I don't know what 30 years is any more, I know what 90 minutes used to be, my life expectancy from roll to touch-down.

I guess I've said it before but perhaps not here, so many things able to kill you in the air, and that's before you rumble...

I think I'm being a little reflective - my wife had a very serious back operation about 18 months ago - this morning she woke up in agony - found a physio and I could not believe how long she was in there, maybe fibromyalgia is back - well, we beat it once, will do again, but tell you, seen less pain in my own face after they pulled a bullet out of me....  At least it is in a different area of her spine so not a re-occurrence, better not be, still paying for that.

Oh the joys of life... :)

Cheers


Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: fuknKIWI on April 21, 2012, 01:25:32 PM
With ANZAC Day approaching our memories need jogging...I've recently been told where my Uncle Norman is buried so with some help from Google I've found some info about him & where he's buried.

http://www.bomberhistory.co.uk/49squadron/Roll%20of%20honour/Roll_N/Nixon_N.html (http://www.bomberhistory.co.uk/49squadron/Roll%20of%20honour/Roll_N/Nixon_N.html)
(http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii16/Trickypiccies/Nixon_N.jpg)

(http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii16/Trickypiccies/08-NixonED453.jpg)
Lest we forget
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: Hardman on April 21, 2012, 05:17:40 PM
...

Ouch...

I had one Uncle go storm those beaches, I think Jamie had two granddads do so, and beating all the odds they all survived.

Me. I just duck a lot, sometimes not quite quickly enough :)

Having re-awoken this thread I started musing on it again - that might not be healthy, but, Ii is an absolute anomaly that you never feel more alive than when you might be dead in five seconds...

I've heard it over and over from Vet after Vet and it took me a while to get off the fix...Very strange, I would like to extinguish war, so would most if not if all of my friends, but it seems in order to do that we have to go to war....

Sorry - too old, but I can pass the ammo :)

Eh, who am I trying to kid? just gimme an airplane :)

Cheers



Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: McClean on April 29, 2012, 08:58:43 AM
...

Ouch...

I had one Uncle go storm those beaches, I think Jamie had two granddads do so, and beating all the odds they all survived.



I was in the hospital both for that post and for ANZAC Day and so the reason for no reply from me.

Yeah, both of my grandfathers were combat veterans of World War Two and somehow survived.

My maternal grandfather was the more miraculous of the two. He was a US Army heavy machine gunner and his entire company was overrun by the Germans. He was among only a handful of survivors.

He also fought in Patton's counteroffensive in the Ardennes.

I never knew that grandfather but I was quite close to my paternal grandfather who was a US Navy radioman during the war and was in flight school when the war ended.

I don't know what ever happened to them but he had kept his notebooks from flight school.

He was doing calculations with a pencil and a slide rule that I don't know how to do with an electronic calculator.
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: Hardman on April 29, 2012, 09:25:57 AM
 :)

Took me a little while to make that transition as well but my HPs serve me rather well these days. :)

It's amazing what happens in times of war, I kinda think Anzac Day should be retired, which is heretical, but, try taking away a public holiday :)

However as I remarked to a friend on the day we don't celebrate June 6th nor from an Oz perspective the battle of Long Tan, and I don't even know what date that commenced - could look it up I suppose, but in the end battles are about sadness.

Perhaps the reason Anzac Day endures is because the two major countries involved have significant respect for the stupidity of it, which is stupid in itself, but also admirable.

I'm probably just jaded, had to duck too often.

Just musing...

Cheers



Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: fuknKIWI on April 29, 2012, 05:23:11 PM
:)
I kinda think Anzac Day should be retired, which is heretical, but, try taking away a public holiday :)

Cheers
Damn right it's heretical one of the reasons we celebrate ANZAC Day is because it's a permanent reminder of a British (Winston Churchill's)  fuck up.  Another is because it's possibly the most successful retreat ever...

:)

However as I remarked to a friend on the day we don't celebrate June 6th nor from an Oz perspective the battle of Long Tan, and I don't even know what date that commenced - could look it up I suppose, but in the end battles are about sadness.

Cheers

It may be heretical but what's the relevance of June 6th? (D Day?)
Long Tan Day is slowly achieving the significance it deserves...on August 18th

LEST WE FORGET
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: Hardman on April 30, 2012, 10:58:53 AM
 :)

Your thoughts echo mine my friend.

June 6th was indeed D Day, and you are dead right about Churchill and Anzac Cove, he never forgave himself, but it forged a spirit that led directly to Long Tan I suppose, one of the few successful campaigns against the Vietnamese, probably because it was handled by Aussies (Jamie will get me for that :) )

Cheers
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: fuknKIWI on May 01, 2012, 09:56:47 PM
Hmmm I once saw a documentary about Long Tan...the thing that stuck in my mind was a former digger saying;

Quote
We won our Vietnam

On another forum (US based Harley forum someone lamented that they have no specific day on which to remember The Vietnam Veterans...they could do worse that chose August 18th.
Lest we forget.
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: McClean on May 02, 2012, 02:40:16 AM
I don't know about Aussies, but Vietnam is a rather difficult one for Americans.

Most of us want to remember and honor the veterans while trying very hard to forget the war itself.

All of these years later, you can't pick up an American newspaper on Dec. 7 and not see a fairly prominent mention of Pearl Harbor, even though that was hardly a high point of American history but few people go out of their way to remember say the fall of Saigon.

Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: Hardman on May 02, 2012, 10:14:03 AM
It's much the same in Australia Jamie, I wan't even here, although I was briefly there but just how we were, or for that that matter how the US was dragged into a war the French had already lost is an object lesson in how to stay out of other peoples affairs.

Cheers

Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: fuknKIWI on August 18, 2012, 12:32:45 PM
August 18th Long Tan day.
LEST WE FORGET
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: Hardman on August 18, 2012, 05:13:15 PM
So true, although that one went on a while.

Cheers
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: fuknKIWI on October 25, 2012, 07:31:28 PM
The last of the Few
LEST WE FORGET


Flight Lieutenant William Walker, who has died aged 99, was shot down in his Spitfire during the Battle of Britain and wounded. Late in his life, having become the oldest surviving pilot of the Battle, he wrote poetry in memory of his fellow aircrew.

Flight Lieutenant William Walker
6:24PM BST 22 Oct 2012
During the late morning of August 26 1940, Walker and his squadron colleagues of No 616 (South Yorkshire) Auxiliary Squadron were scrambled from Kenley to intercept a raid of 40 enemy bombers approaching Dover. Too low to attack the raiders, the squadron turned north to gain height but were ambushed by a large formation of Messerschmitt Bf 109 fighters.
Within minutes, three Spitfires had been shot down. As Walker attacked a Bf 109 his Spitfire was hit from behind and he was wounded in the leg. The controls were shot away and Walker was forced to bail out at 20,000ft. He landed in the English Channel very close to a sandbank, which he was able to reach. Shortly afterwards, suffering from hypothermia, he was picked up by a fishing boat.
A large crowd cheered as he was landed at Ramsgate, but the badly damaged hospital there was unable to deal with his wound. He was taken instead to an RAF hospital where a .303 bullet was removed from his ankle, a souvenir he kept for the rest of his life.
The son of a brewer, William Louis Buchanan Walker was born in Hampstead on August 24 1913. After leaving Brighton College, where he was a contemporary of the actor Sir Michael Hordern, he joined his father in the brewery trade.
Walker joined the RAF Volunteer Reserve at Oxford in September 1938 to train as a pilot. Called up on the outbreak of war, he completed his training before joining No 616, based near Beverley in East Yorkshire, where the squadron’s task was to guard the industrial cities of the north.
The month of August saw an increased tempo of fighting as the Battle of Britain intensified. On the 15th, the Luftwaffe launched a major attack from Norway and Denmark against the north of England. No 616 was scrambled and intercepted a large force of bombers approaching the Yorkshire coast.
Walker, who had only recently joined, flew on the wing of his section leader as they attacked the force. By the end of the engagement, six enemy bombers had been shot down. Four days later, No 616 moved to Kenley, where Walker was immediately in action.
He returned to flying after six months’ treatment, joining an aircraft ferry unit before transferring to No 116 Squadron on anti-aircraft co-operation duties. He was released from the RAF in September 1945 and received the Air Efficiency Award.
Post-war, he returned to the brewing trade and rose to become chairman of Ind Coope, a role previously held by his father. He never lost his liking for a pint.
In later life, Walker was a strong supporter of the Battle of Britain Memorial Trust. Fit and well into old age, he was ever-present at the annual service of remembrance held at the memorial at Capel-le-Ferne overlooking the English Channel in Kent, which always concluded with him stepping forward and reciting, in a strong voice, one of his poems.
Best known is Our Wall, written to celebrate the stone inscription of the names of 2,937 members of The Few. During the 70th anniversary commemorations in July 2010, the Patron of the Trust, Prince Michael of Kent, unveiled a copy of the poem, carved and sited alongside the wall it describes. To great acclaim, Walker then read the poem, which describes the “many brave unwritten tales/That were simply told in vapour trails”.
His poems were published in 2011 with the proceeds donated to the Battle of Britain Memorial Trust.
William Walker married Claudine Walker, one of the Mawby triplets, in August 1941. They separated later in life and she died in September 2012. They had seven children, including Tim Walker, Mandrake columnist at the Telegraph. Two children predeceased them.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/military-obituaries/air-force-obituaries/9626438/Flight-Lieutenant-William-Walker.html

(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02375/walker_2375841b.jpg)

(http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/multimedia/archive/00348/48587724__348504c.jpg)

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/09/14/article-1311774-0B2AE8EE000005DC-862_468x303.jpg)

(http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/multimedia/archive/00348/71389819__348491c.jpg)

(http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2012/4/17/1334670907529/spitfire-pilot-funeral-008.jpg)

Lest we forget...

(http://cdn.triumphtorque.com/static/smilies/62.gif)
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: McClean on October 26, 2012, 03:13:07 AM
Lest we forget indeed.

When I was in ROTC I was honored and privileged to march with men who were veterans of the First World War.

Too many people forget that we owe our lives to men who risked and in many instances, gave theirs.

Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: fuknKIWI on July 05, 2013, 02:57:17 PM

This is a photo of my old man (step father) & his crew from NZ 18th Armoured Regiment in Italy in 1943 at a place called Sangro.

(http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii16/Trickypiccies/sangro.jpg)

LEST WE FORGET

That's him sitting in by the gun barrel I recently found a youtube clip taken at the same time, on the left up the hill on the other side of the bridge you just about see a movie camera set up.
The film clip shows the photographer taking this photo...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5yeLvApN84&list=WLzTvPkyw3xMr4bJmKvtjGAYgfe0VAKx2Q

Any way if you can be bothered watching that's my old man at about 5.01-5.12 minutes into the clip.

McClean my step father was more of an influence on my life than my biological father.
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: McClean on July 05, 2013, 03:23:12 PM

Any way if you can be bothered watching that's my old man at about 5.01-5.12 minutes into the clip.

McClean my step father was more of an influence on my life than my biological father.

Any idiot who can't manage to find sub-10 minutes to watch a film about men who fought and died for our freedom is just that, an idiot.

My paternal grandfather was far more of an influence on me than my own father was and so I totally understand what you're saying there.

I MAY have told you this before but my maternal grandfather was a heavy machine gunner in the US Army during World War Two and as irony would have it, his name was William Walker...

Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: Hardman on July 05, 2013, 05:09:10 PM
:)

Very interesting clip, surprising how these seem to re-surface, courtesy of the Net I guess.

Cheers
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: fuknKIWI on November 10, 2013, 09:43:34 PM
Ahead of tomorrow 11/11/13



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ie3SrjLlcUY&feature=share
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: McClean on November 10, 2013, 10:20:12 PM
Jesus fucking Christ!!!

It took a LOT of hair pulling, teeth gnashing and computer geek skills but the videos are ALL working again.

Please send me a PM if any video isn't working.

Also, PLEASE send me the address of the assshat who played around with the embed code for my videos,

I'd LOVE to hop on a plane and go have a "chat" with him.

To be clear, this wasn't anything malicious or any one person it was just youtube changed their code and our code embed mod didn't know how to read it.

After I finished pulling out the hair I don't have in the first place, I finally figured out what the fuck the problem was.

I manually recoded it and I'll look around for a new embed mod but that was the problem. youtube changed their code and it wasn't compatible with our embed mod.

PLEASE let me know if there are any more problems. This thread is too important to die but right now, everything seems to be okay.
 

Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: fuknKIWI on November 11, 2013, 05:54:24 AM
We will remember them
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: Hardman on November 11, 2013, 06:37:53 AM
Indeed, although I have another reason these days, it's my wedding anniversary.

Cheers
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: McClean on November 11, 2013, 09:28:01 PM
Indeed, although I have another reason these days, it's my wedding anniversary.

Cheers

Which wife?  rofl :P rofl :P
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: Hardman on November 12, 2013, 06:53:01 AM
 :)

Smartass :)

The last one.

Cheers
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: McClean on November 12, 2013, 10:41:42 AM
:)

Smartass :)

The last one.

Cheers

I'd rather be a smart ass than a dumb ass...  :P
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: Hardman on November 12, 2013, 12:56:13 PM
 rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

In my experience the one is usually the other :)

Cheers
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: fuknKIWI on November 12, 2013, 09:42:17 PM
I think this haka has been posted before...but

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10829992
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: Hardman on November 13, 2013, 06:50:55 AM
 :)

Dunno if it has, very fitting mate :)

Cheers
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: McClean on February 06, 2014, 01:41:45 AM
Those of you who know me know that this thread is very near and dear to me and you also know that the auto embedding of videos hasn't worked for some time.

It took me a long time to get my head around it but I finally figured out the problem.

I've fixed the first few videos.

Unfortunately I don't have to get to the others right now but I'll work on them over the next day or two.

At least now I know how to fix them.  :)
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: McClean on February 11, 2014, 08:34:34 PM
 :)

It took the better part of a week, in between other things but AFAIK ALL videos are now working.

Please let me know if they aren't.

Chris, I'm still not clear on the wife count.

I know I had a very pleasant chat with one last night but which number is she again?  ;zq :-*
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: Hardman on February 12, 2014, 03:41:27 PM
 rofl rofl rofl

Four, but she's had more :)

Want me to add up the long term live-togethers ? Depending upon definition that could take a while :)

CHeers
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: McClean on February 19, 2014, 09:26:11 AM
 :)

To get back on topic this is my maternal grandfather in 1943.

He left the army in December 1945 as a staff sergeant. With two Purple Hearts, a Bronze Star and a Combat Infantryman Badge.

Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: McClean on August 02, 2014, 12:48:55 AM
Say a prayer for peace...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7_0v5zZB94
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: McClean on October 19, 2014, 04:32:47 AM
Here are a few new ones.  Or at least new to this thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5WJJVSE_BE

Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: McClean on October 19, 2014, 04:35:43 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KecIdlEAKhU
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: McClean on October 19, 2014, 04:43:10 AM
And a all too true comment from Yitzhak Rabin on the catch-22 of military preparedness.

The profession of soldiering embraces a certain paradox. We take the best and bravest of our young men into the army. We supply them with equipment which costs a virtual fortune. We rigorously train them for the day when they must do their duty - and we expect them to do it well. Yet we fervently pray that that day will never come - that the planes will never take flight, the tanks will never move forward, the soldiers will never mount the attacks for which they have been trained so well.

Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: fuknKIWI on August 04, 2015, 07:28:16 PM
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/70818274/les-munro-last-remaining-dambuster-dies

Click on the link for photos and video clip

Brave and principled but compassionate and unassuming - Les Munro was the sort of Kiwi character many talk about but few live up to.

With his death on Tuesday New Zealand lost one of the greatest of a generation that put service before self.

In conflict he bravely gave service to his country in the one of the most daring raids of WWII with the Dambusters.

Les Munro leaning out of the cockpit of a Lancaster, which he flew on the Dam Busters raid.
Supplied
Les Munro leaning out of the cockpit of a Lancaster, which he flew on the Dam Busters raid.

In peace he gave decades of service to his small community and then stood up to help when his wartime mates were in danger of being forgotten.

Prime Minister John Key said New Zealand has "lost a remarkable man who led a remarkable life" with the passing of Munro, the last remaining Dambuster from the RAF 617 Squadron.

Munro died in Tauranga Hospital on Tuesday at 6.15am.

Les Munro, pictured at the Bomber Command Memorial, London.
Supplied/Adrian Brooks
Les Munro, pictured at the Bomber Command Memorial, London.

"I was honoured to meet Les Munro in person when I attended the presentation of his medals to Motat just a few months ago," Key said.

"His contribution to his country and his generosity will not be forgotten," he said.

Munro's son, Graeme, said his father died "peacefully, after a very short illness".
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: fuknKIWI on August 04, 2015, 07:29:39 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KecIdlEAKhU
How I used to love this song as a youngster.
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: Hardman on August 04, 2015, 07:40:28 PM
Yeah,

I saw the news today but thought our resident Kiwi would post it :)

Amazing man, to have lived so long after being on what was honestly one of the most dangerous raids of WWII.

The patron of my high school was Sir Barnes Wallis and he sorta lived up the road from me, like a few miles but four houses :) He always said he really wondered if anyone was coming back. It was so deep, so early in the war with German defenses very strong and much as we revere the Lancaster it was not really the most sophisticated of aircraft or the most suited to low level flight but they did, in simultaneous hits on multiple targets flying so low they were under wires more than once and with a very, very strange weapon that was only ever used that night.

I recall Barnes saying he tried to get the RAF to keep a few of the specially modified aircraft available but the RAF was so stretched (gee, what's new?) that they couldn't. If they had the Tirpitz might have been the second bouncing bomb target, instead Tallboys, also a Barnes bomb, were used.

Strange that a very strong pacifist produced such weapons.

Slowly the old vets go, all you can really say is RIP...

Cheers



 
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: fuknKIWI on August 04, 2015, 08:02:44 PM
Strange that a very strong pacifist produced such weapons.

Interesting thought there, I know of another committed pacifist who after much debate enlisted and served. He became one of NZ's official war artists, that lasted about 3 days as the Germans invaded Crete, where he was wounded, captured and kept as a POW for the rest of the War.
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: Hardman on August 04, 2015, 08:06:10 PM
Yeah, people get wired to one thing, world needs something else - if you look at the scientist list of the Manhattan Project a lot of them were total pacifists and produced the Armageddon weapon.

Science sometimes, the pursuit of pure science is a fast track to weaponry a lot of the time.

Cheers

Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: fuknKIWI on August 05, 2015, 09:17:24 PM
Strange that a very strong pacifist produced such weapons.

Interesting thought there, I know of another committed pacifist who after much debate enlisted and served. He became one of NZ's official war artists, that lasted about 3 days as the Germans invaded Crete, where he was wounded, captured and kept as a POW for the rest of the War.
I had to cut that post short, the laptop battery was failing badly, the meal was nearly on the table. Austen was a relative and part of quite a story of people who fought wars. I'm running out of time now so let me get back to this later.
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: Hardman on August 06, 2015, 07:56:25 AM
Does sound like an interesting story, will be waiting with interest :)

Cheers
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: fuknKIWI on November 07, 2015, 01:46:02 PM
Oh right Austen I think we might've mentioned Austen at the restaurant recently, re-marrying at 90 something...
Anyway this post is for Sir Michael Beetham Marshall of the RAF, his wife is a friend of Mum's.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/11957795/Marshal-of-the-RAF-Sir-Michael-Beetham-obituary.html
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: fuknKIWI on November 07, 2015, 01:50:55 PM
Austen Deans, artis,t war artist (ever so briefly), prisoner of war and a good bloke.
A picture is worth a thousand words so follow the link and see some of his work, I have an oil painting he did of our farm for my parents wedding present.

https://www.google.com.au/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=Austen+Deans

A selfie as a POW

http://www.art-newzealand.com/Issues21to30/30c07.jpg

(http://www.art-newzealand.com/Issues21to30/30c07.jpg)
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: Hardman on November 07, 2015, 02:48:38 PM
Oh right Austen I think we might've mentioned Austen at the restaurant recently, re-marrying at 90 something...
Anyway this post is for Sir Michael Beetham Marshall of the RAF, his wife is a friend of Mum's.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/11957795/Marshal-of-the-RAF-Sir-Michael-Beetham-obituary.html

Thanks for that did not know he had died.

I worked for him briefly at SHAPE in the early 70s, very easy man to get on with, surprising in senior rank RAF officers at the time.

RIP

Edit: Must have quoted wrong post, referring to your first of course.

Austen sounds so typical of that generation, could use more of them now.

Cheers
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: fuknKIWI on October 20, 2016, 07:43:09 PM
Here's a tribute to the modern diggers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MroeTuBEiA
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: Hardman on October 28, 2016, 01:39:45 PM
*Sad Smile*

I think I've just been to too many wars, and shot at, and hit a couple of times a bit too often, to really see any glory in it whatsoever.

My mother always bemuses me, whenever she gets stuck into the ironing she puts on either "The Longest Day" or "The Dambusters." When the movie ends she stops ironing :)

I think she could recite both by now but the line she remembers the most is John Wayne At the end of "Longest day" jumping in a jeep and telling the driver to "Take me up the hill son."

I am very, very glad most of my family and definitely my mother have absolutely no idea of the craziness I went through - I think one way and another it was seven wars, not all as a combatant - it did get a little tiring...

I just do find it a little odd that my mother, who was early teens I'm guessing during WWII, finds war movies relaxing.

Where she was I think there was only ever one attack, the legendary one on Yeovilton airbase where whilst everyone else hit the slit trenches my grandfather famously stood up shooting back at Me-109s with a Lee Enfield .303 - apparently he hit a couple and they pissed off. I'm not surprised, he had a sniper rating in WWI - whether you can shoot down a fighter with a rifle - but he sure had no love of Germans - which made for interesting times when I had two extremely good German friends,who remain my friends to this day :)

The remaining survivors of WWII are a somewhat unusual mob....

(To describe my mother as unusual is a bit light on though :) )

Cheers
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: fuknKIWI on November 03, 2016, 08:29:10 PM
Where she was I think there was only ever one attack, the legendary one on Yeovilton airbase where whilst everyone else hit the slit trenches my grandfather famously stood up shooting back at Me-109s with a Lee Enfield .303 - apparently he hit a couple and they pissed off. I'm not surprised, he had a sniper rating in WWI - whether you can shoot down a fighter with a rifle - but he sure had no love of Germans - which made for interesting times when I had two extremely good German friends,who remain my friends to this day :)

Didn't they credit an AUSTRALIAN infantry man with having shot down von Richthofen?
I'm sure the odds have lengthened since then  ;)
Title: Re: Wars and the men who fight them...
Post by: Hardman on November 12, 2016, 03:37:29 PM
Where she was I think there was only ever one attack, the legendary one on Yeovilton airbase where whilst everyone else hit the slit trenches my grandfather famously stood up shooting back at Me-109s with a Lee Enfield .303 - apparently he hit a couple and they pissed off. I'm not surprised, he had a sniper rating in WWI - whether you can shoot down a fighter with a rifle - but he sure had no love of Germans - which made for interesting times when I had two extremely good German friends,who remain my friends to this day :)

Didn't they credit an AUSTRALIAN infantry man with having shot down von Richthofen?
I'm sure the odds have lengthened since then  ;)

Yes, I doubt we will ever know for sure but that is the legend, bit easier with Wood and canvas WWI flimsy things I suppose.

I think I''ve told the tale before but my RAF mentor, the Air Commodore, flew Bristol Fighters in WWI, one time he comes back, goes to get out and winds up under the aircraft - the entire floor had been shot out from under him and he never noticed :) His observer thought it was hilarious - utter nutters the pair of them, very good friends of mine for many years - long gone now of course :(

Ah, we are not likely to ever see those sort of antics again, mate of mine told me yesterday he is not quite sure how he ducked a MANPAD last week in Afghanistan, but he did - I'm still trying to figure out what the fuck he was doing there in the first place - he's a fighter pilot, there's no air force there to fight...

Of course the real irony is that was probably an ancient CIA supplied Stinger and he's USAF :)

Those bloody things just do not want to die....

Cheers