Author Topic: Flying in China...  (Read 299 times)

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Offline Hardman

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Flying in China...
« on: August 02, 2015, 04:38:49 PM »
I hadn't been on the PPRUNE site (www.pprune.org) in a while, it's a somewhat irritating place a lot of the time, pilots being as obscure as only a certain group of flyers can be, but went over to see what they had to say about the MH-370 possible debris on Reunion.

Being I was there I stuck around to see what was recent news and ran into one that had me shaking my head. A couple of days ago apparently a Delta 747-400 crossing Chinese airspace was denied a course change by ATC to avoid some bad storm cells and ended up so badly damaged, although put safely down by an obviously great crew, that Delta have written it off and pulled an aircraft out of desert storage to replace it whilst they figure out if they can get a one trip ferry permit to get the aircraft back from Seoul, it's intended destination and where it landed.

The damage from some pics is huge, destroyed nose cone, leading edges showing big trauma, I'm amazed the cockpit windows were not shattered, but in the thread a number of pilots who fly across China often confirmed that short of making a Mayday it can be near impossible to get China ATC to give you a course change.

Big chunks of the country's air are apparently set aside for military use so whilst some pilots have said if you are the pilot in charge you really should tell ATC to get fucked if you are concerned about weather ahead others have said, quite rightly, that entering a military exercise area can be a great way to get shot down.

Wonderful.

I've never been in the cockpit in Chinese air space but I've had some decidedly odd flights in the country as a passenger that now make considerably more sense.

For example, a flight from Hong Kong to Guangzhou that seemed to be a diversion half-way to Macau, check and find that the more logical route is through an area set aside for the Chinese Navy.

Another from Shanghai to Xian, in a 777 flying in bumpy air at 18,000 feet, check and the air above 20,000 is military.

This sort of thing is just plain dangerous, especially with the very low standard of commercial pilot competence in China, no other country anywhere lets military airspace interfere with commercial traffic and certainly not to avoid weather, not even Russia - hell despite all the conspiracy crap I know guys who have overflown Groom Lake, Area 51, when that was the best route.

From the feedback in the thread though the airlines that operate through Chinese air are not doing anything to change the situation, wonder if it will be a different story now a perfectly good 747 has had the crap beaten out of it whilst carrying a full load of passengers ?

Cheers
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Offline LordDread

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Re: Flying in China...
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2015, 12:47:10 AM »
Saw the  pics of that today, wouldnt wanna run it with passengers, but shouldnt be to bad to fix it up for short hop. the windows not shattering doesnt surprise me at all they should look as they do,but short of water melon sized hail, it shouldnt smash through, even severe golf ball sized shouldnt.

lucky for them they have great electronics to land that bitch, cause they sure wernt seeing clearly :P

Offline Hardman

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Re: Flying in China...
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2015, 09:17:01 AM »
:)

Yeah, it must be the month for it or something, seen this one ?

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/08/09/delta-airlines-flight-from-boston-lands-in-denver-after-hail-damage/

The Triplex is indeed designed to do just as seen, outer layer shatters but two more, at least, to go.

I'm sure I've told the tale of testing that on Trident windscreens shooting chickens at it, and why you thaw the chicken first :)

Cheers
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Offline LordDread

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Re: Flying in China...
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2015, 11:48:32 AM »
yeah least them guys still had the foward side windows to see out of :P

What baffles me with the China one, is that the could see it coming, asked to be moved and got a no, fair enough , military space and all... wtf did they not ask for climb permission instead and get above it, presuming it wasnt a really stupidly high cloud cover.

Offline Hardman

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Re: Flying in China...
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2015, 12:15:36 PM »
Hard to know, I've seen thunderstorms reaching up as high as 60,000 feet on rare occasions, too high for any normal commercial jet.

The reality in China according to pilots I know who do fly over the country often is that their ATC just like to bully, the best tactic apparently is to just keep very politely telling them to fuck off and do what you need to do.

Their air force actually does not fly THAT much and when it does exercise it is either coastal or a range they have deep in the Mongolian desert.

Cheers
Politically incorrect?  You betcha!!!  :-)